Going for the Green

Robert Thompson's comments, criticism and opinion on the world of golf.

12 responses to “Toronto GC: When is it a restoration and when is it something else?”

  1. Weekender

    I totally agree Robert. The line between a true restoration and a sympathetic renovation is often blurred and misrepresented. Below is a recent article from Golf Course Industry Magazine that talks about the work completed at Rolling Green GC outside Philadelphia by Forse Design as a ‘meticulous restoration’ that turns back the clock. Two paragraphs later they start describing the ‘strategic relocation of hazards matches contemporary golf equipment, regaining Flynn’s intended challenges while exuding his elegant simplicity’. Call a spade a spade.

    http://www.golfcourseindustry.com//news/news.asp?ID=5327

  2. philip

    well done RT – a worthy blog and not one mention of JD.

    interesting that Hawtree (among other euros) seem to be selling this “safety” thing for reno work. Can a course be altered for safety ever be a true restoration? by definition, i think not.

  3. JIM

    I am not sure this debate is even worthy of discussion. Golf courses are pieces of land that continuously change. Trees grow higher and taller and sometimes die or are cut because they interfere with shot lines. Bunkers deteriorate and have to be restored every 5-7 years. Development around golf courses oftern interfere with original design of a golf hole. A restoration? A redesign? Who the heck cares. Augusta National in no way resembles its original design, but everyone considers this golf course to be among the world’s greatest. So what if changes are made. RT, you seem to imply that golf courses should retain their original character? Why? Most of these courses are member owned, and they are there to serve member needs. I don’t care who the architect is, if members want to change things, so what? This isn’t a painting that can be preserved in an environmentally controlled way. That is not possible for a golf course. The course is there to serve member needs, it doesn’t exist for any intrinsic purpose other than that. Get your head out of your ass man.

  4. KC

    Since I am not playing TGC anytime soon and probably never, I’d like to see TDI cross the road and do some ‘restoration’ on Lakeview GC, especially #12. :-)

  5. Anonymous

    I can’t comment on the GolfClubAtlas thing (registration shut down) but I’d say adding a bunker at 11 green is by definition not restorative.

    Also, whoever is taking the Contractor to task for the bunker work on the GCA forum is probably baeking up the wrong tree.

  6. philip

    jim:

    in some ways, you’re right. landscapes and golf courses evolve… but don’t sell us something that its not. “Restoration” v. “Renovation” may be nothing more than semantics and ego…

    and this is where Hawtree has to come clean – or at least be upfront about his process. sympathetic restoration has its place – was this it? not sure. but if its not, don’t pretend it is.

    One thing I do believe in this whole restore/renovate argument is that nostalgia, in all its forms, can be very, very dangerous when considering design and redesign (not just of golf courses).

    “Nostalgia is killer”. Claude Cormier.

  7. king

    I totally agree! – recently played tarandowah and WOW what an amazing contrast to golf as we see it and the feudal efforts by many architects to establish “links style” courses.
    I didn’t find 17 a problem but certainly 4 is a little weak. All this is overshadowed by the increasing vistas and pure character as the course evolves. From 8 on this course just continues to amaze. By far the best investment in “pure golf” anyone could make. After this who cares about TGC!

  8. Paul

    I guess Jim wouldn’t mind if the bulldozers turn up at St Andrews.

    Martin Hawtree definitely sold this project as a restoration (or “restauration” according to Hawtree.co.uk, perhaps a Freudian?). He’s not claiming it’s a remodeling, so if he designs features are very different from Colt’s original then criticism is fair.

    Hawtree also has a record of changing classic courses for safety reasons which other architects don’t see: Royal Melbourne East

  9. philip

    paul:

    restauration? really? restaurantation? wow.

    and add Lahinch to the list with RME.

  10. A. Golfer

    Restoration
    res•to•ra•tion
    Noun

    1. the act of restoring or state of being restored, as to a former or original condition, place, etc.
    2. the replacement or giving back of something lost, stolen, etc.
    3. something restored, replaced, or reconstructed
    ___________

    RT, you have far more experience analyzing golf course design and publishing your opinion than anybody else on this blog. I respect your provocative writing style; indeed, in the case of TGC’s supposed restoration you have certainly inspired a colourful debate.

    But as any writer knows a semantic dispute is not a true dispute. Whether TGC was restored or renovated or rebuilt or redesigned (or re-whatevered) is a debate better moderated by someone with expertise in lexical semantics than by a sports journalist (blogger?). But if the TGC process was a “do-over”, as you so eloquently put it, it would fall under the category of “reconstruction”, which is captured in the 3rd definition of the word “restoration” above.

    More important than the semantics is the course itself. Given the technological improvements in equipment since 1924, certain greens were no longer safe in their original positions. The course needed to make changes for legal reasons. Furthermore, the basic building blocks of the old TGC had been untouched for decades. Over time the grasses and trees around the property grew tired, and the shaping of the fairways and greens became dull in comparison to other courses.

    The legal requirement to reposition certain greens presented an opportunity to undergo a full restoration — which would have been required sooner or later — in a financially efficient manner. The members are happy with the result. There is a stream of young new membership applicants looking to steward TGC into the next generation. Ultimately the members only need to answer to themselves, so disparaging commentary from outsiders will fall on deaf ears.*

    I’ll finish with an analogy. Picture an old dusty ’67 Mustang sitting in your driveway or garage. You know once upon a time it was shiny and new with no shakes or rattles. It was the cream of the crop. But now the paint has faded, there is rust around the wheel wells, one of the doors is dented, and the engine struggles to turn over. The skeleton of the car is sturdy, but the guts and skin have gone stale. So, you rip out the old parts and plug in new ones. You polish and detail every piece of chrome until you can see your reflection in the carburetor. You install new seats and remove a dented door and install one from another Mustang. Would you consider this restoration “tinkering with a piece of… history”? And now what if you decide to turn the Mustang into a convertible… does that represent similar “tinkering”? I liken the changes at TGC to those of this imaginary ’67 Mustang Convertible. I don’t care if it’s been rebuilt, restored, refinished, retooled, or even redesigned… I just can’t wait to get out there and let ‘er rip.

    * For the record I am not a member of TGC, just somebody who thinks the decision to restore the course — green re-builds and all — was totally appropriate. RT, I’d also be interested in hearing your thoughts about the redesign at Lambton.

  11. Robert Thompson

    A Golfer — you can find my Lambton review here: http://canadiangolfer.com/g4g/2010/11/18/course-review-lambton-golf-and-country-club/

    As for the question of moving greens, certainly the 15th near the road made sense in that regard given the incoming cars. However, I wonder about the need to move the 11th green. The member I play with has never recalled an issue with tee shots off the 12th tee. That said, I don’t think Hawtree’s green is badly done.

    I’ve come to accept the changes at TGC more the more I’ve played it.

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