Going for the Green

Robert Thompson's comments, criticism and opinion on the world of golf.

36 responses to “Jon Mills: “I don’t think this is that big of a leap””

  1. Weekend Enthusiast

    Look closely before you leap…it is bigger than he thinks. I know he has one year of PGA experience under his belt but he has not been successful at it. He should be making these statements after he is successful not before it. Otherwise, it shows a level of arrogance. Tiger Woods gets away with it, few others can…

  2. Shamrockgolf

    I think John’s comment was more a compliment to the depth of the Nationwide Tour than a display of arrogance. Anyone who can play his way onto the PGA Tour via the Nationwide Tour is certainly deserving of credit and the support of his countrymen! Jon leads a list of extremely talented Canadian professionals who will soon be joining him at the top level of the game. Don’t misinterpret confidence for arrogance…
    Congratulations and Good luck to Jon and all Canadian Professionals in 2008!

  3. Weekend Enthusiast

    Perhaps it is semantics. Confidence is defined as “belief in oneself and one’s powers or abilities” – http://www.dictionary.com. When one shares that belief in a very public forum such as a newspaper column, in a situation where many Nationwide players have failed on the PGA tour…and where Jon Mills has previously failed…then some might interpret his comments as arrogant – “arrogance – offensive display of superiority” – http://www.dictionary.com

    Based on his personal record and the fact that many many many Nationwide golders before him failed in very similar circumstances, then a reasonable conclusion is that his comments reflect arrogance. In my opinion, he needs to prove himself before declaring the leap to be “not that great”.

    Imagine if you were a Nationwide graduate to the PGA who subsequently failed…how would you interpret Jon’s comment that the leap is not that great. I bet they would have a different opinion.

    Do not get me wrong…I hope Jon is successful and he makes it. It would be great for Jon and a nice reflection on the Canadian golf scene. Great that he is confident. But prove that the leap is not that great first, then comment on his perspective and why.

    Everybody talks about how difficult it is win on the PGA tour, including Tiger Woods. The leap is great from the Nationwide Tour and to comment otherwise strikes me as being arrogant (even though he may not appear to be). Great that he is confident. He should take that confidence to the PGA fairways and greens and perform.

  4. Wayne Grow

    Weekend enthusiast,

    The difference between the 2 tours is not that great, its 2 putts a round. If a player on the Nationwide tour makes 2 more putts a round, he’ll be on the PGA and winning regularly, its that cut and dry. I’ve caddies on both tours and that is the only difference between the tours. The guys on Nationwide hit it just as far and hit just as many greens, the putting is the difference.

  5. KC

    For Jon Mills sake, he have to psyche himself into thinking that his game is good enough to compete on the PGA Tour.

    He is having the right mind set going in the next step of his career.

  6. Weekend Enthusiast

    Wayne:

    If it is only 2 putts per round and not that great a leap, then everyone from the Nationwide Tour that graduates to the PGA tour should be successful. Is that the case? No.

    Perhaps it is only two putts a round…but doing that consistently is not easy. Agreed that the Nationwide Tour has lots of good players but the leap to the PGA Tour is not insignificant.

  7. Shamrockgolf

    Weekend Enthusiast,

    “I don’t think this is that big of a leap, especially looking at some of the success of the guys from the Nationwide Tour,” he says. “Guys like Zach Johnson, Bubba Watson, Camilo Villegas. I played with them and I know the level they can play at. When I play with them there is not much difference. It is just a matter of confidence.”

    Confidence is defined as “belief in oneself and one’s powers or abilities” – http://www.dictionary.com.

    I think Mr. Mills has a clearly defined view of his current situation and interpretation otherwise is a narrow minded effort to build a mountain from a mole hill.

    I have personally spoken with a Nationwide graduate to the PGA who has subsequently failed, and he shares the same opinion. That’s why they are competing at the top level, and we are typing in front of a keyboard!

    Perhaps we should be revisting this forum next November.

    By the way,

    golders – ” No results found for golders.
    Did you mean GOLDS (in dictionary) or Gliders (in encyclopedia)?”
    http://www.dictionary.com

  8. leaffan

    weekend enthusiast,
    you thought process is all wrong. Jon does not look at his first year on tour as being unsuccessful…….part of being a “professional Golfer” is to be positive and confident about ones abilities……thats why your playing weekend golf with buddies…
    next…..the leap is not that big…thats why you see guys all the time jump from obscure tours and win on tour……examples; ben curtis (played hooters tour, then qualified for tour and won british open), Zach johnson, vaughn taylor, troy matteson, boo weekley, and they list goes on….. …..Jon has played with these guys and in some cases has done better on the nationwide tour…….should he not look at these examples and feed off them.
    next…..it is tough to win on the Tour……its also tough to win on the nationwide tour…. plus he doesnt mention in the article that hes going out there and winning a bunch of events…..
    last……to think Jon is arrogant is laughable……he is the farthest from it…………do you think he would have much chance of success if he approached to tour thinking its way above his level….think about it!

  9. Weekend Enthusiast

    Leaffan and others:

    Let’s deal in facts not conjecture. Of the 15 Nationwide Tour graduates to the PGA tour in the last two years, 50% failed to keep their PGA card the following year (7 in 2007, 8 in 2006) and 3 players in each year kept it by the slimmest of margins (115-124 in money earnings). For all intent and purpose, the majority fail on the PGA Tour.

    One can argue it takes time, effort, focus, and an undenying belief in one’s own abilities to maintain success on the PGA tour but that is my point. The transition is not easy and often requires several tries (Mike Weir anyone?). The leap is not insignificant and to portray it otherwise discounts the work required for success on the PGA Tour.

    Jon Mills can be the nicest guy in the world but his comments that the leap is not that big reflects arrogance. He should prove it first.

    The road to PGA tour success is littered with pros who thought the leap was not that significant and they are scattered around North America as teaching pros and players on obscure mini tour events.

  10. leaffan

    Weekend Enthusiast,

    you are right….its tough……but my point is that to be successful as a player, you cant think its tough….you have to believe in your abilites…..all he is doing is answering the question posed to him in the way he has to……ask any sports pyschologist in the world….
    by the way…..50% percent of the players kept their card….i guess your a half empty kind of guy.

  11. Weekend Enthusiast

    Leaffan:

    There is a difference between what a player believes and what he says to national media. It’s all about positioning. To think otherwise is naive. Jon knows what he is saying and how it will be interpreted. By articulating that the leap to the PGA tour from the Nationwide Tour is not that great reflects a level of arrogance…given his previous performance and the experience of others before him.

    This is just my opinion. It can be OK to be arrogant and if that is what he needs in order to be successful and he chooses that path, so be it. But it is what it is…and even though others believe he may not be arrogant…and he may well not be…his comments to the national media reflect otherwise.

  12. Zokol

    Weekend makes a good point. Don’t kid yourself, the gap between winning on the Nationwide Tour and succeeding on the PGA Tour is huge. The examples of those who have made this successful jump are the ones who are “properly” prepared (and are not held back by their own limitations). Jon has yet to make this step… we all hope Jon will in 2008…but it will not be a piece of cake….it will be a major accomplishment for Jon when he does it… just like it was for everyone who has done so…. Having said this, there isn’t a player on the Nationwide Tour that doesn’t think they can handle this step. BTW, Jon is not an arrogant person.

  13. Coach

    It’s interesting to read these viewpoints.

    As someone who has a great deal of experience in the coaching field, one of the hardest traits to find in any athlete is self-confidence. So many athletes never hit that next stage–and are always known as that guy or girl who had a ton of potential. Self-confidence is an on-going battle with any athlete at any level. When someone can find it within themselves–it’s a huge accomplishment.This can often be mis-construed as arrogance, but there is a huge difference between the two.

    I am very lucky to say that I have known Jon for longer than most and arrogance is the furthest from Jon’s persona than anyone can imagine. I sincerely applaud Jon for all of the hard work he’s put in and the FACT that he’s finding that inner-confidence that will be needed to compete in a heavy field. Jon is making a statement that he’s much more comfortable now with his status of playing with the big guys and that he has a better understanding of what it will take in order to compete and stay on a certain level.

    A true athlete needs to be physically, emotionally and psychologically attached to what they are trying to achieve. Jon is understands this and knows how hard it is to “make it”.

    Without self-confidence you can’t be attached to the three things mentioned above.

    Rather than slam someone, why not applaud him for having the drive to continue, even when things got rough (and they still could—and he’s aware of this as is any athlete)
    Jon has persevered through hard work and dedication. He is the most true, down to earth and humble professional athlete that I have ever met—- perhaps we shouldn’t read between the lines and assume what we think he means–perhaps we try to be positive (rather than negative, because that seems to be very easy for people these days) and wish him the best.

  14. Weekend Enthusiast

    Coach:

    I agree with all your points…except when you say “perhaps we shouldn’t read between the lines and assume what we think he means-…”. I am not reading between the lines…I am reading the lines, specifically his line that says “I don’t think this is that big of a leap,…”. Sorry, this is a big leap and based on his prior performance and the performance of the majority of the Nationwide graduates to the PGA over the last two years, the leap is not insignificant. Another post by Zokol (which I assume is Richard Zokol ex-PGA player from Canada) agrees with me.

    Yes, he needs to have confidence and all the other elements you identified…and I wish him well. As I said in previous posts, I hope he makes it as it would be great for Jon and for the Canadian golf scene. But, when he makes this statement to the national media, regardless of whether the man is arrogant or not (and it would appear from multiple posts that he is not), his comments reflect arrogance. I think he needs to demonstrate that he can overcome this challenge before commenting on it to the national media.

    Confidence is great and all top athletes need it to be successful. In my opinion, being humble in the public media is admirable. Just ask Tiger Woods how hard it is to win on the PGA tour…although in his early years, some of his comments were not so humble…

  15. golfer

    To all:

    Whether it’s that big of a leap or not is in my opinion irrelevent. (Having played on a number of tours I happen to think it’s not that big of a jump…..the biggest leap is in your confidence not your ability) The point is, if your telling yourself that it is a big leap than all your doing is setting yourself up for failure………your excuse is already there. To think the comment Jon made was aroggant, just shows that the person who made it does not understand professional golf or what it takes to be successfull and he does not know the person saying it. We should be glad to see a Canadian professional golfer displaying such confidence……unfortunately we don’t see it enough. (Maby thats why we have so few at that level)

  16. Weekend Enthusiast

    I find it amusing that there are so many on this Board who believe that the leap to the PGA Tour from the Nationwide is not that great. How many of these posters have actually successfully performed on the PGA Tour? Uh, none I would guess. And the one poster who HAS performed on the PGA Tour (Zokol…assuming that is Richard Zokol) agrees that the leap is significant.

    In addition, the FACTS would confirm that the leap is significant as the majority of the Nationwide graduates from the past 2 years have failed on the PGA tour or barely held on to their card the year after graduation. The facts and a comment from someone who has been ON the PGA Tour support the hypothesis that the leap is significant.

    Given that logic would support that the leap is significant, it is arrogant for someone who has not performed successfully on the PGA Tour to state to a national media publication that the leap is not significant….regardless of the fact that Jon is likely not an arrogant person as confirmed by many who seem to know him. What he said was an arrogant statement.

    The issue of confidence needed to be successful on the PGA Tour is exactly right as well as focus, determination, hard work, perserverance, good coaching, etc…which support my position that the leap is significant.

    I hope Jon has the confidence and wish him all the luck for success in 2008. It would be great for another Canadian to perform well on the Tour. Just do it first, then talk about the size of the gap between the tours.

  17. golfer

    Yes Richard was on the PGA Tour and was also on the Nationwide, so his opinion does carry some merit. However, if you look at the number of Nationwide members who have won on the PGA Tour and the number of PGA members who got their start on the Nationwide/Buy.com/Nike, you will see that the difference cannot possibly be that big. Where do you think most of the players have come from? Also, you are forgetting one major fact……those Nationwide/Q-School graduates are put a severe disadvantage right from the very beginning. Only a small number of players get into a significant number of events, many will not even get into an event until the season is well under way. So, the fact that roughly only 50% keep their cards is not a true reflection of the difference in the caliber of play. I would hazard to say that if the those new players where truly exempt like the rest, the percentage that would keep their card would be much higher. The PGA Tour is very much a closed shop….too many new and unknown players = less spectators and less people watching TV.

  18. Weekend Enthusiast

    Golfer:

    You need to get your facts straight.

    Of the 15 Nationwide Tour graduates from 2006 who played on the PGA tour in 2007, the average number of tournaments they played in 2007 on the PGA was 30….ranging from a low of 23 to a high of 34. Of the top 125 players in 2007, only 25 PGA players played MORE than 30 tournaments. So, explain again how they are at a disadvantage? They get plenty of chances to earn their card but the majority fail. In order words, it’s tough.

    With regards to how many Nationwide tour players win on the PGA tour, yes there are several. A more accurate analysis is how many compete and how many win. Again, far more fail than succeed indicating the leap is not insignificant.

    Bottom line, the leap to the big show is big.

  19. Loopy

    Interpretation leaves much to the imagination, and is the cause of most misunderstandings (perhaps while reading this article an individual could have been in a bad state of mind for whatever reason, affecting the interpretation of these comments). I don’t read arrogance in Jon’s remarks, that would seem to be a leap in iteslef (to read arrogance into his comments). I do see confidence, knowing/thinking the path and walking/believing the path are two completely different states of mind. When you hear professional athletes use words (subconsciously) that describe a moment either before or after a play, game or round, you get a clear understanding of their state of mind and why they either succeeded or failed. Jon’s comments clearly indicate he is in the right frame of mind heading into 2008.

    Ultimately there is only one person that can clarify the meaning of his comments, that would be Jon himself. But everyone has the right to an opinion, even if seemingly off base.

    To Zokol (with respect),
    Re-read the article. Jon doesn’t mention anything about winning. By pointing out players who have moved on to the PGA Tour that Jon has played with and beaten over the past few years, he knows he belongs on that stage with them.

    The best part is that we get to watch him in 2008.

  20. Zokol

    Loopy: No disrespect taken, but I do think you have misread my comments and the overall point of this discussion. I never mentioned anything about winning at all. There are a number of levels of “success” that Jon will need to pass first in order to make the top 125 in 2008, of which, everyone knows there are no guarantees. Your comments are a little confusing in that Jon has beaten others “who have moved on to the PGA Tour”… Jon is now on that stage with them (don’t understand your point)… what matters is Jon will need to ultimately pass his next tests, a few he has not yet accomplished, which we all hope will lead to him staying on the PGA Tour…. I believe he should be able to accomplish this and then some… Jon has great potential, perhaps more than Mike Weir did before Mike made the 125 for his first time… There is no reason at all that Jon can’t become consistent enough to not only stay but consistently win on Tour… Staying on point, making the top 125 for Jon is not an easy task. Hell, it hasn’t been easy for him to this point, and it’s not getting any easier. If Jon knows he belong on the PGA Tour, he will get there, but keep in mind the pressure on Jon to coming out of the blocks fast on the West coast swing is huge. If he doesn’t get off to a great start before they reshuffle his category and get to Florida, the pressure starts to rapidly mount and it will only get tougher from there.

  21. Shamrockgolf

    Wow,

    I sure hope Jon doesn’t read this article and its posts. Leave the man alone and allow him to let his clubs do the talking before you dismantle his media statements. If I were him, I wouldn’t do another interview ever again as it would only lead to public scrutiny and criticism!

    Based on the majority of interpretations, Jon is confident and deservedly so… If he can win on the Nationwide Tour, there is no reason why he can’t win on the PGA Tour. It’s a matter of skill, confidence, good breaks and proper planetary alignment.

    Just ask Mark Wilson, who captured the 200th PGA Tour win by Nationwide Tour grads at the 2007 Honda Classic. Or perhaps Boo Weekley, who never won an event on the Nationwide Tour!
    If not, we could always ask Charley Hoffman.

    I would expect them all to say that the leap from the Nationwide Tour was almost too significant and they weren’t sure whether they should even bother entering any events at the next level…

    I guess they just happened to win by chance…

  22. Weekend Enthusiast

    People have opinions and they have a right to express them. Exposing yourself to the media means you will be written about. Get over it and if you do not like the commentary, do not give interviews.

    Btw, there are lots of reasons why Nationwide Tour winners do not win on the PGA Tour…because it is hard. If it wasn’t, then all the Nationwide Tour graduates would win on the PGA Tour…but the majority fail to keep their card the year following graduation, let alone win. Why? Because it is hard. Some might even say the leap to the big stage is significant…

    I am all in favour of letting Jon’s clubs do the talking…in fact his clubs should do the talking before he talks about how the leap to success on the PGA Tour is not that great…when the facts and logic suggest otherwise.

  23. 10 Capper

    I want to pop in here and mention something about confidence.
    Jon could have worded his interview a little better but again with
    an interview you don’t usually get second chances. He could have said this will be my second opportunity to make a statement and I think I’m much more prepared, and a better player too, which should help make the transition that much easier, but not easy. For him to say that it isn’t that big a step is a mistake, because it is. He can say what he want but inside he knows he will have to make shots and putts to be successful. Every step you take up the ladder is new and exciting but still a challenge. I hope Jon succeeds as he seems like a very nice young man, and we would all love another Canadian to be successful on the PGA Tour.

  24. Travis McAlister

    I know one thing about Jon Mills, and that is that he might well be one of the nicest men in professional golf I have met. I have hosted Jon at Desert Mountain and recently at Silverleaf (where Euan Dougal is the incoming director of golf) and was able to listen to a humble person. He had never seen any of the layouts at either facility, and promptly dropped a 67, 66, and 66 on me faster than I could blink an eye. Andrew Parr joined us at Silverleaf, and showed great signs as well, learning from Jon’s lead. Jon, in my estimation, will prosper in his early 30′s once he gains a comfort level with courses, travel, and scheduling to remain fresh. Canadians should be very proud of Jon, and no doubt will become even more fond of his talents and representation of Canada in years to come. His hard off-season work will yield fruit, mark my words!

  25. Doodee

    Thanks for sharing

  26. Shamrockgolf

    Weekend and others:

    Here is an interesting article posted on the PGATOUR.COM website stating the truly small differences between players on the Nationwide Tour and PGA Tour.

    http://www.pgatour.com/2008/h/02/19/lagarde/index.html

    Jason Gore himself says it’s not that big of a leap. Anybody want to argue with him?

  27. Weekend Enthusiast

    From the article…

    “Don’t misunderstand. This is not meant to knock or mock the PGA TOUR. It is head and shoulders above any other tour on this planet. The best play there. Period. Full stop.”

    Would a writer say that for a tour that is not a big leap from the Nationwide Tour?

    The Nationwide Tour is a good tour, a good development tour where some members will make it to the PGA Tour. The leap, however, is not small. If it was small, then should there not be even more who make it successfully on the PGA Tour?

    BTW, Jon Mills is 114th in money earnings after playing 4 events. Obviously, it is early but the initial returns reinforce that the leap is not as small as Jon and others believe.

    I hope that Jon makes it this year and there is still TONS of time left although the tour re-shuffles after the west coast swing and Jon is not exactly in a prime spot…making his journey that much more difficult…

  28. Tighthead

    I think the leap from succeeding on the Nationwide to existing (100 to 150 on moneylist) on the PGA Tour is not great; the leap from succeeding on the Nationwide to succeeding on the PGA Tour is substantial.

  29. Shamrockgolf

    From the article:

    “That just goes to show you how good the Nationwide Tour is. You know, I think so many people overlook the fact that oh, it’s a secondary Tour, but it’s not. [What happened to me] could happen to any one of us, and somebody coming out of the Top 20 this year is going to do the same thing that I’m doing right now, and that just shows you how many good players there are on that Tour and how great that whole Tour is for golf and how much respect it actually doesn’t get.”

    I think the point is that any player can break through at any time… it’s all about confidence, hard work and good breaks.

    It could even happen to you……

  30. Weekend Enthusiast

    From Jason Gore’s quote in the article noted above:

    …and somebody coming out of the Top 20 this year is going to do the same thing that I’m doing right now…

    If that is true, then one person of 20 will be successful. This means that 19 will not. 20 of the most successful Nationwide Tour professionals beating out thousands of aspiring golfers devoting endless hours of work, effort, and focus to make this transition and only ONE will be successful. If that is not an indication that the leap is significant, I would hate to think what IS a significant leap.

    Let’s recognize the Nationwide Tour for what it is. A very good development tour that enables a small percentage of Nationwide players to earn a living on the PGA tour after lots of hard work, confidence building, and good breaks. The fact that so many graduates fail reinforces the fact that the leap is significant.

  31. Tighthead

    I think any top 20 who goes top 125 on the Tour is successful, and I will wager there is more than one of those per year.

  32. Weekend Enthusiast

    I hope I am wrong and sincerely wish Jon Mills all the best this year on the PGA Tour. Nonetheless, while there is still 2/3 of the season left, after 1/3 of the season, Jon sits at 154th in money earnings. Yet another data point to illustrate that the leap between the two tours is significant…contrary to what Jon voiced to the media earlier this year. Hopefully with hard work, confidence building, and good coaching, he can make the significant leap between the two tours.

    Maybe sinking those additional two putts a round is harder than one thinks…

    Here’s hoping that Jon will be successful for the remainder of the season.

  33. laptop battery

    If that is true, then one person of 20 will be successful. This means that 19 will not. 20 of the most successful Nationwide Tour professionals beating out thousands of aspiring golfers devoting endless hours of work, effort, and focus to make this transition and only ONE will be successful. If that is not an indication that the leap is significant, I would hate to think what IS a significant leap.

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